Looking at the comments for yesterday’s post, the concern most often expressed was the high cost of needlepoint, especially vs. knitting.
I worry about this much of the time and I agree the cost keeps many folks from trying needlepoint. I’d like to look at this on several fronts in today’s article. I’ll talk about what parts of needlepoint are expensive and why, the costs of knitting, ways to make needlepoint affordable, and how we can promote and encourage affordable needlepoint.
The picture at the top of this article shows how you can create amazing needlepoint affordably. It uses two threads: a metallic and one ball of pearl cotton. The seams are a metallic ribbon from a fabric store as are all the flowers in the center. The most expensive part of the project, besides the finishing, was the piece of canvas. I used many of my Blackwork books to find the patterns, but I have an ebook with two Blackwork stockings in it available for $16.50 here.
Expensive Needlepoint
When most folks think about expensive needlepoint they think about hand-painted canvases. And these can be quite expensive indeed. That’s because a person holding a brush painted the entire canvas. You have to pay people who do this whether the designer holds the brush or it was painted by a painting service. These wages are based on a per hour salary. So if you paid $1/hour and the canvas took 10 hours to pain, the salary would be $10.
To this the other costs of the business get added on. And this happens for each business the canvas goes through, including the shop. As canvases get larger and more complex, they become more expensive, it can’t be helped.
Another factor in the cost of needlepoint is the cost of canvas. While we do need to buy less of it than if it was fabric, it’s much more expensive. That’s because one company makes it, or most of it, they use high quality materials, make it in one place on special looms and have to treat it afterwards to make it stiff. These things will make any fabric more expensive, it’s just that we see canvas more often.
Although as stitchers we love or unusual threads, it wasn’t that long ago that they were the exception not the rule. If you think about thread cost as per yard instead of per skein, even many expensive threads end up being pennies per yard. And if that’s still expensive, use floss. It’s the cheapest thing out there. You can buy it inexpensively at chain craft stores. Unlike their knitting yarns, with floss you are using a natural fiber!
The Costs of Knitting
Lets talk about knitting and its costs. Yes many patterns in knitting are free. And yes there are plenty of projects out there that only require a skein of yarn. These are the impulse buys of knitting and often are projects that cost well under $20 (some of my affordable needlepoint ideas can do this too).
But what if you want to do a larger project, such as a shawl, afghan or sweater? Then you will need multiple skeins of yarn. I looked at free patterns at a popular on-line knitting store. I looked at a shawl. It took 3 skeins of yarn at $11 each and circular needles at $2.50 (the cheapest ones). A blanket would take 12 skeins and a sweater 7-10. These prices are comparable with my ideas for affordable needlepoint at the low end and the cost for smaller needlepoint canvases at the high end.
Although some projects can be done quickly many others take great skill and significant amounts of time. While I think knitting is a good comparison to needlepoint, I think needlepoint wins on the creativity side and knitting on the practicality side. The costs can be similar on the low end of needlepoint and medium end of knitting, but needlepoint can be much higher in price.
What Is Affordable Needlepoint
Years ago I thought of the cost of needlepoint as what I called the “lipstick problem.” You know the old story: a woman is depressed and she goes out and buys a lipstick as a treat. It’s perfect for that : beautiful, fun, and inexpensive. She doesn’t usually go out and buy a new pair of shoes or a new dress. The key is that lipstick is inexpensive enough to be bought on impulse.
Even back then, 20+ years ago, needlepoint didn’t have many projects priced like lipsticks, even expensive ones. The same thing is true today.
Affordable needlepoint needs to be something folks will buy on impulse. It needs to be appealing and complete. This is not rocket science and sometimes I see painted canvases that achieve this but not often. Canvases do not have to be hand-painted; you can create beautiful needlepoint from canvases at any price. It is only our prejudices and the prejudices of shop owners that works against this.
Here are some ideas that could be put together easily to make needlepoint projects that could sel affordably in shops within days.
- Package canvas and required threads with print outs of free charted designs, such as the ones from Rainbow Gallery
- Line-draw outlines based of free vintage embroidery patterns and package with threads and stitch guides
- look for designers who create more affordable canvases and promote them
- encourage your favorite designers to create smaller more affordable projects, package them & stitch a model for your shop
- look at computer-printed designs
- create projects that fit into ready-made frames or that can be finished easily and cheaply and make models
For my own business I’m committed to an affordable needlepoint model. All my classes are inexpensive so that you can afford to learn. So are my books and ebooks. I also have lots of blog posts with free designs and on ways you can create your own designs affordably, even if you aren’t artistic. I also have clubs that give you lots of projects (One this year specifically teaches you how to create designs as an alternative to painted canvases).
Promoting Affordable Needlepoint
It will take creativity and willingness to create a new paradigm for needlepoint. As stitchers it takes us buying these products. It takes us encouraging folks who might not stitch to needlepoint and to show them that it isn’t only a craft for the old and rich. It takes us stitching in public, helping others, and showing that it can be done.
Knitting did it 15 years ago — why can’t needlepoint do it today?
It takes a few brave shopowners to give some space to package these projects and give them space. Make a model or two. If you and your employees aren’t stitching models for the shop, ask your customers. Many would be happy to stitch for you. Remeber models sell things!
Educate yourself. Instead of picking silk (the expensive option) or floss (the cheap option) understand about thread prices. And stitch from your stash. Show how something lovely can be made from your leftovers. It’e recycling so this is popular.
It won’t take much. We can change the paradigm of needlepoint.
It’s up to all of us to show how creative and affordable needlepoint can be!
About Janet M Perry
Janet Perry is the Internet's leading authority on needlepoint. She designs, teaches and writes, getting raves from her fans for her innovative techniques, extensive knowledge and generous teaching style. A leading writer of stitch guides, she blogs here and lives on an island in the northeast corner of the SF Bay with her family
Needlepoint is also more affordable if you are careful not to purchase duplicate items…
I am always horrified by the high costs of canvases — and while I appreciate beautiful fibers, haven’t yet acquired the expensive taste of silk. However, if you’re set on bringing your cost down, you pretty much have to go to counted. Several years ago, I bought a whole role of canvas — great quality, 12 ct (so pretty good for everything – I tend to do large projects) for about $80. I carefully save and sort left over wool from other projects (complete with color and lot numbers) so that I can easily work from my stash and add to it. I started acquiring vintage books from the 80s and 90s when a large number of designers published books with full color charts, color numbers/matches, and quantities needed of wool for projects. While I still occasionally buy a painted canvas or splurgy fiber, I’m proud that I do a ridiculous amount of work for a relatively small amount of money. Charts are also readily available via Pinterest, Etsy, and sites like DMC. When I want to be inspired or “go shopping,” I browse through my “library” of needlepoint books to find a project I’d like to do. (I’ve also taken components for designs to create my own chart on the computer.) Currently, I am working on a huge William-Morris inspired panel from the chart (published by the well-known designer in the 1990s) which — with purchased wool — I’ll finish for about $80. Retail on the same design as a printed canvas and wool from the designer’s website? $900. It’s all about how you want to work, but the $20-30 pillow can be done — it just requires a little creativity and willingness to work a little differently. While most charts of that era are designed for tent, I can add or change decorative stitches wherever I’d like – not unlike working from a painted canvas. If I only was any good at sewing I’d be set because finishing is where I spend the bulk of my needlepoint budget.
Boy do I know that feeling!
Keep stitching,
Janet
These are some great strategies. Many of them can be applied to every project we do. And counted isn’t the only way to go to get great affordable projects, it’s also very easy to create your own line-drawn canvases.
Keep stitching,
Janet
I agree Janet that counted isn’t necessarily the way to go. I happen to prefer counted, however, the price of kits and canvas has continued to go up. A Dimensions Gold kit (which includes everything you need, including needles,) can run you anywhere from $35 – 50 and a lot of that is because Dimensions dies there own floss, however, several years ago I spoke with a customer service person at Dimensions looking for floss for a kit they no longer carried that I wanted to re-stitch and she sent me a chart showing Dimensions’ colors and the matching DMC (and the other 2 embroidery thread makers……who’s names escape me at the moment,) colors. Finishing has always been the ‘big ticket’ item of stitching between the blocking and choosing a mat and frame….not to mention whether to glass or not to glass; but the end results are usually worth the price. I tend to pick up rolls of Aida when I happen to find them on sale and then use them to create my own designs in order to use up floss remnants. Do I love to knit/crochet as much as stitching? Not really, but like Janet stated, knitting and/or crocheting are more practical than stitching; but if I’m not reading I can usually be found with a needle in my hand stitching away.
My two hobbies are needlepoint and golf. And… needlepoint, even with handprinted canvases and special threads, is clearly less expensive.
I have been needlepointing for over 40 years and I now live in an area without any needlepoint stores, so I very much appreciate the online community.
I think the painted canvases are too expensive and I want to use my imagination to create from a blank canvas. Bargello is wonderful for that, as is 4-way bargello and stitch samplers, Recently I have been taking a sketching class so I can transfer my own ideas onto canvas in line drawings and then improvise with colored threads and stitches. Of course there is some ripping out occasionally but its all part of the fun, believe me. My masterwork so far is a pilow with a dragon worked in metallics and gold beads (I do beading also) and a bargello border, also beaded.
I see so many wonderful samples on Etsy.
There are lots of ways to avoid expensive canvases and create grand needlepoint pieces. Just wish thete was a shop within 20 miles, so I didn’t have to go 50 mi. For interesting threads!
One way I have found to reduce costs for ornaments, counted of course, is to stitch them on perforated paper or plastic. This reduces finishing costs to almost nothing if you back them with a little felt. I quite often find the charts in the ornament edition of a popular cross stitch magazine.
Converting cross stitch designs to needlepoint is also easy, provided there is not too much backstitching or too frequent colour changes and many of those designs are free. Sometimes the colour change issue can be solved by using a varigated thread.
Borrowing design books with charts from the library also reduces costs.
In addition to the obstacle of expensive canvases and the finishing of projects, whether that be framing and matting for a picture or into a pillow, the other frustration is the lack of needlepoint kits and/shops/and catalogues that feature mainly needlepoint. In the Kansas City area, there are very few (only one or two) shops in the metro area, and hardly any catalogues that are out there any more. Everything is cross stitch. All of us that needlepoint need to find a way/platform in changing this. I love the canvases of those English companies and have purchased a few of them, but again, the cost is expensive because you also are paying for overseas duty tax to import. Ugh! Plus, another frustration, is that one of the stores that carries needlepoint has a very small inventory of canvases and threads (it is predominately a knitting store) and the clerks are snotty if you ask anything about needlepoint, because they don’t want to be bothered with that; they want to deal with knitting customers. I love to needlepoint, but feel that many like me, are frustrated all the time because of lack of choices in our city and with catalogues.
I have a Christmas stocking that I began a million years ago. It is near completion, but I am having trouble with the final stitches. Is there a company who will complete the stitching prior to finishing? Thank you.
You are looking for a stitching service. I only know of a couple. One is run by Voila Needlepoint. I would suggest you contact them.
Keep stitching,
Janet
I think you leave out several key areas where costs could come down significantly. a) Yes, hand painting canvases are expensive, but many canvases are screen printed, no? If a company sells many copies of popular canvases, it lowers the cost significantly. Additionally, I don’t know about the wholesale model for needlepoint stores, but based on retail prices of common canvases, the prices are shockingly high. Yes, kits are cost effective — and, IMO, high quality kits would be popular in LNSs. (I’ve certainly been in stores that offset the high cost of the canvases by kitting the project out as part of the cost.)
Also, don’t discount those of us who work from charts. I have at least 50 books collected over the years (used bookstores are wonderful) full of charts — many classic designers and designs and new styles, too. It cuts the costs significantly. (That said, I tend to work on larger format pieces and often in wool or other less expensive fibers — silk and other fibers are fun but are large pieces can break the bank.)
Finishing is dreadfully high, but I understand the reasons for it, in many cases. However, stitch guides, books, etc are ridiculously high (and sold poorly.) There are so many more efficient ways to produce content in a more cost effective way. So, as someone who has needlepointed for years and years but still feels a bit of an “outsider”, I see a lot of ways the industry as a whole could lower prices, but when you’re dealing with small shops who need high prices (and margins) to stay in business, that’s not likely to happen. (Lastly, while I appreciate having an LNS, I do *not* appreciate being shamed (online or in person) when I choose for find more cost effective ways to source materials. And cost shaming, IMO, is very common in needlepoint.) This can add to the cliquishness of the community that will continue to be a barrier to newer customers.
Renee —
You bring up some great points and ideas. We all should be looking for lower cost options.
I do disagree on one point. Often shops don’t do much more than the standard wholesale to retail mark-up. Some stores do, but often that’s because their costs are higher. It’s amazing to me, but if you look at small independent shops with many specialties, you would be surprised at how consistent the mark-up, costs, and profits are.
Needlepoint shops may look as if they charge higher prices but this could be because the initial cost of goods is higher.
Keep stitching,
Janet
Janet, I suspected that was the case — otherwise, *someone* would have decided to cut margins to cut prices. I don’t know enough about the wholesale side of the industry, but I just keep thinking there has to be excess margin *somewhere*. The costs are just too high (but dealing in small quantities might be part of it.) I really do feel for the small retailers who have to struggle to keep in business, which makes you wonder when the retailers as a group don’t start asking questions.
Renee–
I think that finding out where there is excess is harder than you might think. Let’s look at the life of three products: a hand-dyed thread from a small company, a mass market thread, and a hand-painted canvas.
The mass market thread is made in large (for us) mills, and packaged by machine, probably in different sizes. While in the light of other manufacturers in the industry (thread & cloth) embroidery thread is very small, these companies can take advantage of big company things and can sell cheaply.
The small thread manufacturer works at home or in a small space and has to buy the base thread from the big manufacturer. They do not work with machines in factories, they dye by hand, so the work is more labor intensive. Because they have no control over the thread they buy, there has to be constant testing &, possibly, changing dye formulas. Finally everything needs to be wound and packaged by hand. It is no wonder these threads cost more, they start near the level the big companies sell at.
Doing things by hand instead of by machine takes longer and costs more.
When we get to hand-painted canvas it gets even more complex. Once again we are dealing with a hand-made product, so the painter’s time must be figured into the cost. Painting canvas requires paint & canvas in the final product and needlepoint canvas is not cheap, even at wholesale prices. Plus you need brushes to create the canvas and these get used up quickly in the process, so this cost needs to be factored in.
Any painted canvas will have these costs. But most designers use painting services. These are companies that you employ to paint your canvases from masters you produce. So you are buying from them and reselling to the shops who then sell it to the consumer. The painting services take on the burden of paying copy artists, and buying supplies.
Here is a totally imaginary scenario to show how this works. The raw materials for a small ornament cost $10 and it takes the worker 30 minutes to create. Assuming that with benefits, the worker makes $20/hour, that makes the ornament’s cost to produce $20. But the painting service has other costs of doing business, so the $20 ornament gets marked up 50% costing the designer $30. The designer also has costs of doing business. Let’s figure they mark up the same amount as the service — 50% to cover costs plus a small profit. The ornament is sold to the shop for $45. So something that “cost” $10 in materials is 4.5 times more expensive & it has not gotten on the shop’s walls yet.
Standard mark-up in many industries is double wholesale. From this margin the store has to pay rent, utilities, salaries, advertising, and all other costs of running a business, plus make a small profit, sometimes not even doing that. Using this measure that $45 canvas would cost you $90.
If you look at this chain, no one in it is making tons of money but with each layer added you get additional costs to the business & a higher price to the consumer.
I’m not denying that there may be excess in some parts of the needlework business, but I am saying that the issue is far more complex than we might think.
Keep stitching,
Janet
This may be not quite along the above lines but I sort of fell into needlepoint after my grandmother passed away at 108 in 2016. It was something she loved doing and I dearly wish I’d done it with her but never had been that interested. For some reason, after her death, I felt compelled to try it. I just basically went online (EBay) , bought a Barbara Russell Labrador retriever belt and Elsa Williams wool in colors I liked. I had zero training, no classes etc and just started stitching in basketweave- learned by your tutorial. It just cracks me up how inexperienced I was and despite my lack of skill and understanding, the belt came out ok. My point is that for someone who wants to try needlepoint but doesn’t live anywhere near a needlepoint shop it’s very hard to get started. But in the last 3 years I’ve found a few tricks that cut my costs down significantly. One I paint a lot of my own canvases. I bought a yard of 18 mesh and cut it to whatever I need. I’ve realized that if you’re stitching for yourself who cares if you went over the lines or changed a color or you can see a pencil line. Invest in a great set of acrylic pens with the finest point you can find. Second, I don’t always splurge on silk and silk blends made just for needlepoint. I buy knitting silk or silk/wool blend lace weight yarn online. I’ve found some amazing fibers that’s are so wonderful- Ice Brand Yarns from Turkey, Knit Picks Luminance, some silks from India, and Malabrigo Silkpaca all work wonderfully on 18-13 mesh. And they come in skeins of 400-600 yards. More than I ever need. I still buy one or two high end canvases like DBU belts each year but more as a reward for myself or when on vacation if I can find a shop. I covet Susan Roberts, Liz Dillon, Melissa Shirley, Kate Dickerson, Charlie Harper canvases but rarely can afford the one I want! I still also buy “good” specifically for needlepoint fibers from LNS’s too but online. Another tip is check out estate sales and thrift stores. They often have a craft section and I’ve made some great finds. For me finishing my completed canvases is the expensive part. I do not see at all but now I’m thinking about learning just to finish some of my projects.
Thanks for these great ideas. I’m going to have to try out some of those knitting yarns. I love using knitting yans for needlepoint!
Keep stitching,
Janet
After years of buying fibers for needlepoint and cross stitch and being horrified at the cost of a small 5 yard skein, I decided to start hand dyeing my own fibers. Look for me on Etsy and Ebay, I offer my Queen City Dye Co, hand dyed DMC and #3 AND #5 perle cottons for about $1.50 a skein. Try hand dyeing for yourself and get the exact colors you want. My next project is silk and yarn!
Can you tell me how much a needlepoint shop typically adds to the cost of finishing? Is it different with each shop? It seems like some shops cost more than others and it is getting more expensive. I just had a small pillow finished and it’s over $550! I understand that it is round and gusseted, but I was still shocked.
There aren’t any typical amount shops add to the cost of finishing; it depends on the shop. Some shops add nothing to the cost of finishing = shipping; others mark the finishing costs up.
In addition to this variety in what shops add, the amount charged by the finisher can vary widely. Your final costs could be high because the fabrics used are more expensive, or the pillow is filled with feathers or down. Even the pillow’s finished size can change the cost (a bigger pillow will cost more).
Your best strategy is to go over what you want and ask for a written quotation from the shop. If you do not want to pay more than a certain amount, let the shop know that. Most shops work with several finishers so ask.
Keep stitching,
Janet